Universities Vs Poor Students


this episode of the young taxes brought to
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it right for you by the and enter the promo code tears him from the wall street journal world is really great investigative piece
about how colleges throughout the country are now in denied admission to students who
need financially so each university’s college has a budget
for financial aid and those budgets are starting to write them right and they’re not universities
aren’t able to provide financial aid to students so what they’re doing is they’re accepting students who a you do not apply for financial aid and be can pay their tuition in full in fact
some colleges and universities art accepting students that are out of state because with state university’s they can charge
the higher tuition for out of state students you know ahead as organic i thought that that
they were doing this throughout uh… you know i’m a little surprise that
their you to be more honest about it now or are doing it more now like for example international students of
a container full way i mean i had the third journal of us here
but i thought u_s_ each of those people without even checking well i think you know you can pay the health
i mean you know i saved it for any i’m fighting about you know reparative reputable institution that if you could pay the full way that they
were of the more inclined to take you really made his story is that and now coming and saying no no a lot more inclined to put out a little inclined in pale cool way and g_p_a_’s lord they are
and they are stories price something everyone’s always
kind of suspected right but now they’re kind of out in the open talking
about a attic i think it’s a good thing that they’re being
more honest about it but the fact that they’re honest about it makes me think okay should
there be some action because in essence you’re discriminating against into can’t pay for
college article kaplan afford to pay for higher education that’s
crazy ever making well you know you know what it is it’s reverse affirmative
action if you’re really rich uh… then your that
you can get in with lower grades if you’re poor well you you know you got to
get even better grades then the kids who are already massively advanced this is exact our visit of what my proposal
for america for a man of action is you know i don’t want to based on race i wanna do it
on socioeconomic status where look if you’re
poor kid in west virginia or in the bronx or wherever uh… you know you have a tougher in in some
of the inner city schools it even take the books home with hot you note for you to compete with the kids
in the rich schools is amazing and they should get some sort of you know
benefit the dow dick if they get really good grades
in those contacts right but in reality in the real world is exact opposite
delight all you’re ready incredibly privileged and you got lower grades anyway that’s okay
as long as you can pay right on poor kid you did great in those circumstances well you can’t they sat there for you lesson and the reason why ab i would like that this story has been published
is because people like republicans especially will say
who cares if you grew up poor ok in the united states you have all the opportunity to pull
yourself up and do whatever you want to do with your life
if you wanna do something then you will be able to do it because they are endless opportunities
in this country that is not true okay if you are underprivileged you will remain under privileged under this
system you can’t afford for cotton can afford college
no education for you sorry about that now look uh… i want to be careful you’re
because uh… i think the debts an overstatement like you’re sick and you
would still make if you’re poor you ken but what this shows you is you’ve gotta work doubly hard trampoline heart industry he can’t make it and i don’t want you to give
up all but i i’m positive you can make it but at the same time it you see you’re behind several different
evolves right amin you had overcome your current context yet overcome the the bill lower funding of
your school’s live music and read a book summer whatever it is and then when you apply to
schools got even better grades in the rich kids to get in yugi’s so overcome all that stuff but got a shouldn’t be that way you should
be that we actually are the land of opportunity and
we give those kids guerrilla fighting chance something spent in new york it really sucks
because we have to have all these meetings to pick out what kind of clips that we want
for you to and sometimes he’s on this we’re technology
where every single move it like that because it cuts out but will we started using is goto
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100 Comments

  1. @rlocke2 Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. A teacher, doctor, and a few other fields aren't 'learn on the job' positions, and it makes sense, no, it's necessary to learn beforehand.
    …but that's simply not most professions, you will never learn in college, what you will learn actually working in your field. So you take a low wage, compensorate with your knowledge & experience. Then as you gain experience and acquire knowledge your marketability goes up, and so therefore does your price.

  2. @AKSBSU Which is fine, as long as you're spending your own money.
    …but my point is about the necessity of college in getting a job, not your choice to acquire knowledge for knowledge's own sake. I don't think anyone will argue against that. Again, so long as you're doing that, on your own dime.

  3. @Pleblian
    Yes but tuition isn't free. ~4500$ in Québec for a year (2 semesters) in university and its the cheapest in the country. Whats great is public technical college where it's basically free.

  4. @UtubeMyAccountName and with many jobs having gone through college can increase your marketability, because which person looks more able to do a job, someone who has gone through college, or one who has not. Not to mention many "entry level" jobs are nowhere near the same job as the one you want to work, and have to go through all that work. College is just a different means to do all that work to get to the end goal.

  5. @UtubeMyAccountName Having an educated society is not just good for individuals. It makes our entire society stronger and more competitive in the world. We should have state supported schools that provide access to education for those who do cannot possibly afford to pay $15K to $30K a year plus living expenses. People who are bright and skilled enough to succeed in college should be able to go if they want to. We need to come up with a better system than the one Ana and Cenk are describing.

  6. @ecwaufisxtreme hahaha seriously man Palin is more epic failure than the right-wing mentality. Communism is the forefront of giving the necessary items and opportunities for people whether be rich or poor, black or white, citizen or non-citizen. Seriously you need to check your information and at least look at goods of communism. PERIOD!!!

  7. @UtubeMyAccountName Good point. I guess I just want to see our high schools improve. It's pretty awful when people come out of high school and don't know algebra, basic science, and elementary history

  8. @UtubeMyAccountName because the way people "act" determines the price of a college education??

    I think it's slightly more complicated than that…

  9. @rlocke2 Again, you're saying the same thing I am. In answer to your question, it depends completely on the job. That's why they're called 'entry level' jobs. Of course they're not the job you want to end up with, that's a given.
    …but you're flat out wrong about that last part. There is a very great difference between paying to acquire knowledge (schooling), and getting paid to acquire knowledge (working).

  10. @AKSBSU If the education a person receives, does not lead them to employment, then that knowledge they have acquired is only a benefit to themselves. Which again, is no bad thing, as long as it was their cost alone.
    Again, the reason schools cost so much, is because people put an undue and untrue emphasis on it's value. You saying that everybody should be educated, and everybody gains, without truly defining any practical benefit, is a prime example of this.

  11. @mvans130 I think I understand your argument, but I gotta head out to work now, and I don't want to give you an off topic answer.
    So I'll just be general. It's like snake oil, people bought it as a cure all, who weren't even sick. It's irrelevant if it worked or not, because it was unneeded in the first place.

  12. @smaakjeks Thanks for the list. So you are saying that America no longer has exclusive rights to the "Dream" of easy access to a prosperous future? In my sleep deprived state I assumed you were simply degrading the state the "Dream" in america.

  13. Man I've been hearing so many stories of pple getting student loans and after graduating can't find a job and can't pay back their loans. So this story kinda conflicts with all the pple who got loans and can't pay it back, so which one do pple want?

  14. @UtubeMyAccountName I think your analogy fails because if an education is appreciated by all involved (student, parent, society, ect) then a college education IS a cure all. I don't think I'm alone in this one; if I was, half of europe wouldn't subside university tuition. I think your objection should be with the large public universities that look to maximize profits and build immaculate campuses ahead of offering a useful education to the public.

  15. @UtubeMyAccountName have you ever heard of an internship, something that many college students are put through as part of there schooling. That is what internships are about, giving real world experience and hands on work to go alongside the knowledge you gain from college. It is a mixture of knowledge and experience that leads to better prepared workers. There are many jobs that can only be learned by doing, but there are also just as many that require some knowledge first to be successful.

  16. This is a classic case of American Economic Myopia. We do not exist in a vacuum. There are more children on the Honor Roll (80% Avg. or higher) in India (not including china) than all children alive in the USA, Canada, and Mexico. In a modern economy innovation and science are required to compete globally. Every brain must be trained to it's full potential because like it or not we fall or rise as a society. If we don't smarten up we will be the third world country.

  17. @limduul You're missing the point. Your economic earning power in the short term may be determined by your own skills but your future is determined by the whole of your country and its ability to compete in a global economy. India and China out populate us 7 to 1. Their economies are growing 3 times faster than ours. They have 7 times as many book worms. 7 times as many entrepreneurs … not focusing on education is the fastest way back to the 3rd world for us.

  18. @AKSBSU
    But now you're mixing things up. I would never claim that these other jobs don't require some type of formal training. The discussion here is whether or not university is important for everyone. Cenk has claimed as much in the past. And, yes, there is a stigma surrounding high school kids that the only respectable professions are the ones that require a university degree. Meanwhile, one of the richest guys in my neighborhood, whose house is $2.5 million, is an independant plumber.

  19. I'm I from outer space? All of these practices by the colleges make complete business sense.
    My suggestion is to start requiring, that's right, requiring college courses the last two years of high school. I'm fairly certain high school is a certified circle jerk as it is. Maybe student debt would be lower if they graduated in two years.

  20. @pay4cayray Props. Higher education in Sweden is truly amazing.
    But you're still in Sweden. What is Sweden doing to solve the problem of being themselves?

  21. @ViciousParker If you ever tried to start a business, you'd realize that the hidden costs of doing so are so prohibitive and that the rich competition has such an edge that it would be possible to do so. Telling yourself it is your poor upbringing that holds you back is a lie the elite has espoused to keep you "in your place."

  22. @Floydthefuckbag If your definition of "doing well" is making $30,000 a year as a waiter for the rest of your life then, yes, that is about the ceiling one can reach with hard work.
    The same amount of effort for someone who was born into a family that made $1,00,000 a year would have the person making in a day what your version of "doing well" makes in his entire year. You just have no clue.

  23. @AngrySkeptic And after law school I'll bet you anything he'll flop out or spend the rest of his life taking pro-bono cases and making jack for the rest of his life because he doesn't have rich family connections to buy him into being a partner in a high end law firm nor the rich family's political connections to hook him up with a cushy job in the DA's office.
    Getting the degree does NOT equate to success.

  24. @therohanicelf My definition of success was not whether one could get a degree, but rather if one could get a job that makes at least $50,000 a year or possibly two, three, four times that amount.

    What you don't realize at your naive age is that a degree is just a piece of paper that can perhaps add to one's qualification for jobs, but having family money is a MUCH more important qualification.

  25. @LiBlub1 Yep.
    So unless your employer/field expects or requires a particular degree/level of education, there is no 'practical' reason nor benefit, to the expense.

  26. @mvans130 Three things:
    1) The purpose of my analogy, was to show how demand drives sales/prices.
    2) Snake oil was no cure all, and neither is a college education. You're making the same argument as @AKSBSU, about the philosophical benefits of college, so if you read my reply to him, I don't need to be repetitive.
    3) A college is a business enterprise like any other. Their business is education. Their whole purpose is to make money. They do that (supposedly) by selling 'a useful education'.

  27. @rlocke2 Someone already answered you, but I just wanted to give a little historical context on the whole internship thing.
    When I was a kid an internship was something that business engaged in to acquire talent. if necessary in fact, with an agreement of X many years labor, many would actually pay the college tuition of promising candidates. This process created a financial burden, neither to the intern/student nor to society.
    This is a far cry from what is called an internship today.

  28. @mvans130
    First of all, I'm civil enough not to engage in personal attacks. Second off, I have no problem with the ads. I have a problem with the same exact one, over and over, twice on every single video. Why do we have to keep seeing the same ad again? Do you think it'd be ok if they started putting ads in the middle of the video? This is youtube – not television, and in ratio they have much more ads on it Fox News does – not to mention they have a hundredth of Fox News' budget (if that).

  29. This has reminded me how lucky I am to be in such a prestigious high school. Instead of my local crappy public schools that are in my district. Its the things like what these Universities are doing that only propel me to do better in order to give back and help kids like me get the opportunity they deserve.

  30. the economist peter schiff posted a video for obama's SOTU speech saying that public universities and humanities degrees that offered "no marketable skills" were the cause of the recession, and that people would have jobs if only they had a good education (presumably a science degree from a private university). i commented defending public education, and he replied that too many people are in college already and public schools should be discouraged if not dismantled.
    these people are insane.

  31. This is why I ALWAYS scoff when someone says that they went to an Ivy League school. I know so many people my age who were definitely Ivy League worthy but could never afford going to a Ivy League school. If someone is an Ivy League, it does not mean that they are smart. Most likely, they are smart and rich (maybe a bit leniant on the smart)

  32. Reality is education is the best bet out of poverty.. A poor person contributes very little to society comparatively speaking.. they are barely making enough to subsist and even then might need social assistance.. As much as Republicans would like to just "bury" the problem, it won't go away..

    Poverty is a social sink of both money and people, the optimal social structure is to have most people in the productive middle class and in the long run education is the best bet..

  33. @therohanicelf Again, those are lies universities tell you and you find out after you graduate with such a degree that they were lies all along.
    America has no more jobs for engineers– the government doesn't build infrastructure and companies don't do much engineering. There are 50 graduates for every job.
    Computer science is not much better. You may as well move to India with that degree.
    And accounting? Barely middle class unless your wealthy parents or friends hook you up in management.

  34. Education is the pathway to competitiveness in a global economy. It should be heavily subsidized and I think scholarships and stipends for financial aid to promising students is the way to go. Lets face it, every A earning poor highschool student that gets turned down due to financial costs is going to end up contributing less to the economy and the taxbase in the long run. As for Rich B earning students…..They'll probably earn the same whether they get in or not…Old money sticks around.

  35. @hassleoffa Utter nonsense, up until the last sentence. In that you are almost completely correct.
    The problem comes from the idea that education itself is some panacea, it is not. Like all things, if education does not serve a specific, that is 'specific' and practical purpose, it is like spitting into the wind.

  36. @UtubeMyAccountName (1/4) You said, "@AKSBSU If the education a person receives, does not lead them to employment, then that knowledge they have acquired is only a benefit to themselves…"

    This is not true and this is where your snake oil salesmen analogy fails. As AKSBSU said, an educated society is not just good for the individuals that have an education, but for all. Living in a democracy, it is vital to have intelligent people who can think rationally when it comes to voting in elections.

  37. @UtubeMyAccountName (2/4) Thinking critically is not only important at the polls, but how you interact in your community on a daily basis. For example, understanding that racism and classism are social constructs and usually very irrational. Also, in our dynamic economy, it is vital for consumers to educate themselves on the products and food they buy. I have an opinion that the lack of consumer knowledge in the US is a major contributor to the corporate power in our country.

  38. @UtubeMyAccountName (3/4) Another reason an broad education is useful is the turnover in the job market. People frequently change careers these days. Improving problem solving skills and critical thought in college is one of the best investments today with the speed of technological advances. As a businessman, I'm sure you can conceptualize if every person in the US was a worker contributing to the GDP. If the state funded education, I can only imagine a positive economic impact.

  39. @UtubeMyAccountName (4/4) I'd like to finish by saying that by no means is a 4 year degree necessary for everyone and I applaud those who (for whatever reason–great teachers, interested parents, personal will power, ect) are intelligent and rational right out of HS. My point in these posts is that giving kids 4 more years to develop their brains and their rationality is ONLY a net benefit for society.

  40. The rich have more opertunity to FAIL as well. Poor and middle class kids have ONLY ONE SHOT at doing well at school. Also, when the economy crashes because of these rich fucks and thier greed, the poor and middle class CAN'T AFFORD to go back and re-tool. It's discusting what these rich fucks are doing to the poor and middle class these days as well as this great country. We need a revolt!

  41. @khanhogamir But Norway has shit unversities (no offense) and the US still has the best universities in the world.

  42. I'm read a bit about this, and another angle is that schools want to take students that they think are likely to be successful (i.e. rich) later on, because they hope that they'll donate to the college. This usually means taking students from rich backgrounds over those from poor backgrounds.

    There are all kinds of ways they do this besides ability to pay, for example, looking at extracurriculars, whether or not the student came from a private school, etc.

  43. …Ph.D's by %, as uneducated racists & classists.
    "Another reason…broad education…turnover…job market." I could argue that a broad, unfocused education, is the reason for so much turnover.
    "As a businessman…conceptualize if every…worker contributing to the GDP." Yes in fact, I can, & it's horrifying. A persons value, is not dependent upon their contribution to a collective, people are not ants.
    "…state funded…only imagine…positive economic impact." Subjective, not critical.

  44. @mvans130 "My point…4 more years…benefit for society." You presume (by default no less) that college is the place where such a thing as you suggest takes place. Where is your evidence?
    "As AKSBSU said…Living in a democracy…in elections." This presumes that democracy itself is beneficial. Evidence?
    "…racism and classism are social constructs and usually very irrational." Agreed. What does college have to do with this? There are as many racist and (especially) classist…

  45. @wulfgarpl Yes, that’s quite right, but the internal competition in the noble ranks was fierce.
    With claims to their noble legitimacy based in religious dogma, and because of the border intrigues and conflicts the noble families were forced excel in diplomacy and often dedicate themselves solely to their respective office.

    This is a generalization based on Scandinavian border intrigues within noble families during the late Middle Ages. 🙂

  46. The community college I attend is proposing a $12 dollar increase per unit next semester, from $20 to $32, and for next year hike it up to $60 per unit. fuck that.

  47. In my theory, this is how revolution starts. The great mayority of people are mediocre and poor, but sometimes smart capable are born poor and mediocre are born rich. If you make the smart capable capable people mad because of this kind of system, they will use the other poor people to crush the system and all the mediocre rich people with it.

  48. @ByTheBirchTree canadian students could stand to gain quite a bit if they stopped getting shit faced, rolling around in their own vomit and clogging up an emerg bed all weekend. you won't get far if you kill more brain cells than you fill.

  49. @MastaPlanMan third world country, as in the government is unable to provide any necessary services. Is that what you were asking about?

  50. in india so long as yu can get admission, at the masters level, the govt pays yu to study… basically meaning that yu get a monthly stipend which when added up for the whole year is a little more than twice the yearly fees (fees that included hostels and mess)… the catch is that competition is tough, but not very tough. in USA everything is upside down

  51. We are not humans, we are paper and numbers, we are a burden to all other parasitic people, we are hopeless, we are losing our humanity, we are without compassion, we are losing our community & society, we are being destroyed by greed & insecurities, we live in ignorance & denial, we are complicit, we are disconnected from one another, we sit in the comfort of distractions (TV, social status, politics, hate/fear/lies, celebrity, media) and we are enslaved to the system (money & oligarchs own us)

  52. So now somebody won't be racking up 200,000USD in debt for a sociology major and this is a bad thing?

    This is good. Tuition fees must come down. The only way it so stop having public money in the system.

  53. @UtubeMyAccountName wow…….

    I give up. I couldn't care less what you think about the society that you live in as long as you don't run for public office. If you can stay away from that, you'd be doing all of us a favor.

  54. If you're so stupid you couldn't pick rich parents you don't deserve to go to college. Be a bit more responsible in choosing your family.

  55. Colleges have long been becoming Financial Institutions for Alumni who are basically shareholders of the Education system.

  56. Don't some larger institutions have private donors that they use for financial aid…or is that for the more prestigous institutions?

  57. @derekxnl If you're at the top of your class I'm sure you could get a lot of scholarships if you aimed lower than your "top limit" of schools you could potentially get into just by merit. Yeah, it sucks and is unfair, but believe me getting into a mediocre college is still a lot better than never going to college. Because at that point any success you have will be due entirely to luck.

  58. @Sorgutentarer Those times are nearing an end. There was a recent study of Indian Entrepreneurs deciding to stay in India instead of move to the US or Europe. Why? They can be moderately $uccessful by our standards but in India that translates into living like a King. They are closer to China, increasingly becoming their largest customer. And most importantly they don't WANT TO LEAVE THIER HOMES AND CULTURES. They used to have to move, now they don't.

  59. @UtubeMyAccountName I agree the type of education is critical (500 characters doesn't give me much room to elaborate) India and China are primarily producing Engineers, Chemists, Material Scientists, and Medical Researchers. They've Identified the areas of future growth and are directing focus to those fields. We make lawyers and reality TV stars.

  60. @hassleoffa Now you're talking.
    Then I think you did @limduul a disservice. His point was if you stop lionizing scholastic success, those with any real ability will fill the wholes that need filling 'spontaneously' (for lack of a better term).
    I personally love that other society's are becoming more competitive, it can only drive the entire species to greater success. If we (America) intend to be a relevant participant (competitor), we need to end this school, just for schools sake mentality.

  61. @TIMAAYx Thats funny cause none of my supervisors I worked for got their positions through EXPERIENCE not 4 years at a business school. I the REAL WORLD experience goes a long way and companies look for that first then a degree. Thats the point I'm trying to make, and don't give into the BS that for profit schools tell you just to get your money. A person with 8 years management experience is more likely to take a executive position than a student who earned a bachelors degree in business.

  62. @MarioSMB3 While hes being melodramatic, you may be forgetting what story your listening to.

    Hes responding to the video, not our past progresses.
    Also, we used to be tops, yet another area where we are in decline
    huffingtonpost . com/2010/07/22/countries-with-the-most-c_n_655393.html#s117378&title=Russian_Federation_54

    Maybe china is running out of people, didnt they drop the 1 child per family rule awhile back? 🙂

  63. My wife and I were poor and both went to college via loans and grants. What's all this talk about poor people not being allowed in school?

  64. studies have actually shown that the social returns of higher education are actually significantly lower than the private returns, thereby implying that higher education is not the economic 'merit' good that has to be subsidised by the government. by subsidising education, the government is essentially taxing everyone and lowering universities fees that would be very much affordable to the rich in the first place. therefore in a sense the poor are subsidising the rich when fees are low.

  65. @Thongger therefore essentially the poor pay for the rich to go the universities. it's not as one dimensional as many people may think

  66. @Kimyumoto16 times are changing rapidly, my father is global head of communications at Daimler AG, didn't have the money to go to university as kid, but he himself says that without a doubt, there is no way he could have possibly been able to make the same career path without an mba. In addition its true, when he hires people he doesnt care if they are harvard or w/e it's the type of person, but fact remains that for every 1 guy he hires without an mba there are 9 he hired who do.

  67. College should be free as long as you are putting forth the effort and studying

    Here's a thought, a single F-35 pays a year of almost 2700 teacher salaries, how about we realize that we're not fighting WW3, and if we were it won't be decided by conventional weapons, and stop trying to match the entire planet's defense budget?

  68. We're living in a crap economy and many don't have good jobs or good money. The only way to get good money is to go to college, college needs good money, which few people have. As long as education is like this, we're not going to get anywhere.

  69. @comparecourses In grad school, I got treated like shit by my professors for needing a job, paid internship, or teaching assistanceship. The latter ALWAYS went to foreign students to cut down on the number of credits that they needed to take to stay in the country, so I had a full load, student loan debt, and no spending money. They also wouldn't let me stay on and write a master's thesis or give me letters of recommendation. My second year, they started giving me unexplained B+s.

  70. @comparecourses One prof gave me a B+ and explicitly wrote on it that she didn't know what I could do to make it an A paper. that is a hallmark of incompetence. I did manage to cajole of letter of recommendation out of her after a bunch of refusals. Her main point was that her letter of recommendation wouldn't be that good because she gave me only a B+. Well, how would you like to know that one of your students spent the better part of a year in housing court because he couldn't find a job?

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